> Eight-week-old mice were used for the spike protein injections. S1 protein was purchased from Acrobiosystems (Cat #S1N-C52H4, Newark, DE, USA), and used after polymixin B (Cat #P1004, Sigma-Aldrich, St. Louis, MO, USA) treatment (30 µg/ml). The animals were anesthetized with isoflurane, and the injection paths were drilled into their skulls. Then, 5 µg of S1 protein (1 µg/µl) were bilaterally injected into each hippocampal region using a Hamilton syringe (Cat #80330, Hamilton Company, Reno, NV, USA) attached to a syringe pump (Cat #53311, Stoelting Co., Wood Dale, IL, USA) at a constant volume of 0.5 µl/min.
I think we can all agree that injecting huge amounts of viral protein into your brain is not recommended.
This study did not include a control group which received non-spike protein viral antigens (from say influenza which is also known to cause neurocognitive problems). As such it does not prove any specific neurotoxic effect of Covid19. The mechanistic studies in the paper suggest it is non-specific inflammation which causes neuronal cell death.
It took me a little over a year to feel back to normal. That’s cognitive function and reduced anxiety. It introduced depression and anxiety to my life that I never had prior. I’ve had to learn to cope with this and sought solutions every new day. What helped me most was exercise, little to no mainstream news or social media, and getting clearer on my purpose of life. It was a very rough 14 months, but I got through it and feel back to normal.
how much of this could be attributed to the world events surrounding Covid and basically correlation vs causation? There have been studies that the majority of people claiming "long covid" when tested have never actually been infected. Most of the symptoms described could be depression due to being locked in your home and your normal lifestyle disrupted for nearly 3 years now. Plus general anxiety from the negativity of the news in general creating constant doom and gloom
even this study is somewhat suspect to me, they injected spike protein directly into the mouse's brain rather than using a natural infection. There's only a single study saying Covid can cross the blood brain barrier, so I'm not sure this methodology translates to real world infection
I used to think long covid was total bullshit. Now here I am with tinnitus for 3 months after a pretty mild case. Probably it’s best just to trust people about their own experience, if this pandemic has shown us anything it’s that nobody knows anything. No masks! Wait, wear masks! Surfaces are the problem! Nevermind on surfaces! Close playgrounds! Wait, outdoors is where we should be! — and all this from the professionals.
You can easily estimate precautions from first principles, knowing that the Covid virus is ~100nm in size, a human cell is ~100um in size - so Covid is 1000x smaller. These things are expelled in water vapor from breath (masks), and water as spit (surfaces). They "gum up the works" of other cells, because they are so small.
The first advice to avoid masks was purely to avoid impacting the PPE needs of frontline workers. So you could have ignored that. As for surfaces, it seems dumb to wash your groceries, but it seems smart to, I don't know, not eat from a salad bar that lets all the customers exhale on the food (this is gross pre-covid).
People taking precautions outside was always dumb. The concentration of virus scales as r^3, in general. Plus, UV destroys them.
Playgrounds are a mixed bag, because kids are adorable, but gross. They are constantly touching each other and their own nose, mouth and so on. OTOH they have good resistance AND its really really important to socialize young kids, or they don't get socialized. I respect going either way (I picked "allow").
Its tough to see so much angst about Covid, and the messaging has been terrible. Hardly anyone explains the why of any guideline, so you can't really decide for yourself. So, like any good physicist, I applied first-principles and so far have only caught it once! (It was post Pfizer vaccine, and quite mild).
You are denying lived experience of a person that was injured by the disease? Do you also lecture people in wheelchairs to stop feigning their unproven "illness", until they a 4 volume rebuttal, starting from the Krebs cycle, and finally convinced you their legs actually do not work?
the original covid is conclusively known to impair your sense of smell, sometimes total anosmia. Sometimes total anosmia for life, but luckily that seems rare.
Blood brain barrier? The olfactory bulb in your nose does NOT have the blood brain barrier. But you didn't know that, did you? Remember this next time when you are going swimming.
Never been infected? That would require lymphocyte testing, and none of those tests have been clinically validated, and never will be. no money in that, and original strains no longer circulate.
Do you have any biology training aside from mandatory high school curriculum?
If you still have doubts after two years of pathology report after report of lymphocyte infiltration in the brain - you too, may also have lymphocyte infiltration in your own brain.
"43 patients were included in our study. Patients died in hospitals, nursing homes, or at home, and were aged between 51 years and 94 years (median 76 years [IQR 70-86]). We detected fresh territorial ischaemic lesions in six (14%) patients. 37 (86%) patients had astrogliosis in all assessed regions. Activation of microglia and infiltration by cytotoxic T lymphocytes was most pronounced in the brainstem and cerebellum, and meningeal cytotoxic T lymphocyte infiltration was seen in 34 (79%) patients. SARS-CoV-2 could be detected in the brains of 21 (53%) of 40 examined patients, with SARS-CoV-2 viral proteins found in cranial nerves originating from the lower brainstem and in isolated cells of the brainstem."
It's astounding how seemingly most people just jump to "oh its in your head, just some anxiety". A fairly nasty virus, that causes severe disease that literally kills people even. Penetrates into the brain, cranial nerves, spinal fluid. Causes peripheral neuropathies, palsies, paralysis.
..but no, let's just ignore all that and jump straight to "it's all in your head"
I used to think the same way as you until I got it pre-vaccine. When you get it and there’s no treatment available, you glue yourself into the current events for hope. Yes all of this begets more anxiety because of all of the misinformation and disinformation out in the world. I had to shut up the world and do my own thing to recover.
For what it’s worth I had antibodies doing a blood test multiple months after suspected infection.
Social isolation does cause depression and anxiety, as social interaction is a very well proven anti-depressant.
Covid is also known to destroy your sense of smell. The olfactory bulb. which is neural tissue in your nose, goes right into your brain, and has no protection from blood brain barrier...because it doesn't have it.
Covid is neurotoxic. Isolation does cause depression. Both are true.
That doesn't mean the brain is spared. Covid does get into the brain, and CNS positivity is correlated with olfactory mucosa positivity. Something we've known since autopsy report after autopsy report since 2020. Two years now.
"Presence of intact CoV particles together with SARS-CoV-2 RNA in the olfactory mucosa, as well as in neuroanatomical areas receiving olfactory tract projections"
Are there any tips for getting into exercise or any other approaches you can recommend? I'm coming up to the 1 year anniversary of a covid infection and even though I don't have any physical symptoms, the last 12 months have been a constant fight with burnout and depression that, similar to you, I have not experienced before.
Therapy has been tremendously helpful, but more as a coping mechanism - I have not been able to get back to "normal" yet.
If you're up to trying some supplementation, after my Delta infection in October I took a PQQ-CoQ10-glutathione-NAC combo that my local store recommended, along with some straight NAC, and my lingering fatigue cleared up about a week after the illness had abated. There are lots of other long COVID recovery protocols out there which are pretty easy to find -- who knows how much of it is snake oil, but as long as what is recommended is safe, possibly taking some placebos is a minor risk to run for a chance at some relief IMO.
Start small in anything you pursue and gradually improve each day. If running, start with walking. If weight lifting, start with the bar. Do something that grounds you and challenges you at the same time so you stick with it.
Over here, too! I feel like I've had a lobotomy and even after the other symptoms were gone, I have been sleeping an extra 6h a day. I feel like I need a little nap and wake up 3h later.
I have been feeling like this for years. But I do know there was a time where I didn‘t feel like that. I wonder if anxiety, an unknown past (viral?) illness, past medication (Isotretinoin, SSRI?) or something else is at fault.
A Rumatologist. endocrinologist Is also a good idea.
Make a list of every symptom you have. Get some lab work done. See if there is any outliers.
My ANA was off. 1:640 speckled.
Doctors kept telling me to ignore it.
It ended up being a major clue to keep pushing for more and more testing.
You will absolutely be gaslit by doctors at every step of the way. Gotta keep pushing and learning. Join the support forms for chronic illness in Reddit and Facebook.
Eventually you’ll see people that are suffering the exact same symptom that you are.
They can guide you on what has to take to confirm a rule out various ideas
I too have become a nap fiend since a bout with covid last year. I can't get through a working day without one now. (I do extend the day afterwards, if anyone is wondering)
Long Covid is turning out to be subtle and pernicious. I would not be surprised to learn that lots of illnesses have long-term complications that have gone unnoticed.
What about the proteins the mrna and vector vaccines turn your cells into factories for, at various locations in your body, for a various amount of time?
The vaccine is a measured, limited, non-self-replicating dose of spike protein RNA which your cells fold into spike protein. Nearly all of it ends up in the lymph nodes near your armpit, where your immune system learns how to destroy it (and then does).
A COVID infection is a self-replicating, theoretically unlimited dose of spike protein RNA which your cells fold into spike protein. If you’re lucky, it’ll mostly affect your respiratory system. But if your immune system can’t respond quickly enough, it will spread and replicate all over your body.
> Nearly all of it ends up in the lymph nodes near your armpit
Not sure how the situation is in other countries but in Germany they started recommending aspiration (used to make sure no blood vessel is hit) a few months ago due to concerns of the mRNA getting into your blood stream and causing adverse effects like that.
From my understanding, you want it in the lymph system (hence muscular injection). It is believed that issues like myocarditis are where the injection might hit a vein.
It's the same thing, the main difference is that those cells only work that way for a few days, while with an infection, they work that way until the infection clears.
There's one important difference: not everybody who's exposed to SARS-CoV2 will become infected and replicate a large amount of viral proteins. But everybody injected with mRNA will become a spike protein factory.
There's such a range of bizarre opinions and hot takes about anything Covid related that it's impossible to even guess what point you're trying to make.
Our entire family was sick and it crushed us for 2-3 weeks. This description sounds like it applies to us too. I take anxiety medicine and it’s like it completely stopped working. Yet none of us tested positive for COVID.
I don’t know what that means. It could mean we had COVID but the tests were wrong. It could mean we didn’t have COVID but the flu had similar impact.
Just have no idea what to think about anything anymore.
Edit: downvote away. This is my literal life as it occurred. I’m not making a political statement I have absolutely no idea what to make of it.
That has been my assumption. Part of the family had also already had COVID. They said this was much worse than COVID, which I would assume is because we are all vaccinated and it was most likely the milder Omnicron variant.
Not skipping the flu vaccine next year! Although I think this years vaccine was rather weak unfortunately.
The paper clearly states that mice were injected the full spike protein, not mRNA, nor only the bit of the protein generated after the vaccine is administrated.
> Our behavioral study showed that administration of SARS‑CoV‑2 spike protein S1 subunit (S1 protein) to mouse hippocampus induced cognitive deficit and anxiety‑like behavior in vivo.
About the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA vaccine Wikipedia says:
> It is composed of nucleoside-modified mRNA (modRNA) encoding a mutated form of the full-length spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles. [1]
So it seems it's at least the other way around. To me it doesn't sound too far fetched to consider that vaccines might have similar effects. But I am not a doctor either so this is just speculation.
I wouldn't be putting up this stink if I wasn't sure this applied to me somehow. The headaches were shit to put up with, the mental fog I was able to deal with and get rid of, but the anxiety just did not fucking quit.
Not till I started using omega 3. I really want this looked into if possible.
> I also had some chest... things... but I chalked it up to the anxiety since calming down tended to make it subside.
I started having this three weeks after I tested positive for COVID this past January. During the first month after it started, I had several nights where I woke up from chest pain. One night started with my left arm being very numb, followed by my chest feeling tight, then my entire chest feeling probably the most adrenaline I've ever felt, and then the worst panic attack of my life.
I've been to the ER several times, had multiple ECGs done, multiple rounds of blood work, a sonogram, and a CT scan. Because no one can find anything wrong, it's just been diagnosed as anxiety. I've basically been unable to work for over two months now while I seek treatment and the right medication combination from a psychiatrist. Calming down and taking medication for anxiety does help, but I still wake up at night sometimes with what feels like rapid/irregular heart beating.
I'm twenty-four years old. I got my third shot of Moderna's vaccine in November, 2021.
A Veteran's Affairs study of 153,000 veterans shows that people who got (Wild strain, which is pre-Alpha, pre-Delta, and pre-Omicron) COVID are 60% more likely to develop cardiac complications.
It's a bit of paranoia. This isn't about mRNA vaccines. This is about massive viral load and protein production for days due to infection and direct infection of the brain tissues by sars-cov-2. "neurotoxic effects in COVID-19 patients." to quote them.
Do you have a link to any research papers demonstrating "direct infection of brain tissues by SARS-CoV-2"? The last and most compelling evidence I saw on this was a study where about 50 cadavers from people who had recently died from aggressive COVID infections (with symptoms of anosmia) were examined, and they found no evidence of the virus infecting neurological tissues.
There is at least some evidence that spike protein may circulate in exosomes for up to four months after vaccination, although whether any of this would be likely to cross the blood-brain barrier, I don't know: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34654691/
I don't mean to be rude, but it's about as apt as homeopathy in terms of dilution when comparing what was tested here (and is possible by infection) and a couple tens of micrograms of transiently expressed mRNA in your muscle tissues. And no, the potential for mis-splices leading to soluble spike protein like what happened in a tiny subset of the adenovirus DNA vaccines is not there.
It's fine. I'm just sick and fucking tired of people acting like god damn know it all's over things we are all still just figuring this all out over. We learn more every day, but we also find more to learn as well.
AT the end of the day, the symptoms they mention are what I felt. This is not hypochondria or illness anxiety disorder as referenced as now apparently.
I was actually concerned that it was possibly just my mind playing tricks on me. But taking things like omega 3 seem to have helped, and not taking them from time to time seemed to make it worse again. Among some other things I was testing out before that.
So color me surprised when an article that states the very two symptoms I was experiencing appears. Hmmm... perhaps maybe the toxic people out there could fuck off and accept that some of us are not having the same fucking ride that the rest of you are, or believe is happening?
Is that so fucking hard? Not to be rude to you or anything, just being blunt and frank at this point because I'm kind of tired of this sites more toxic motherfuckers.
I believe you. Chronic brain inflammation is known to cause anxiety and depression, with nearly immediate relief with anti-inflammatories. Ignore the ignorant.
Mastocytosis, an inflammatory disease that involves mast cell (a type of immune cell) dysfunction, nearly always presents with what looks like terrible anxiety.
Look into glial activation and things that help with that.
If omega-3 helped, you may find several other things beneficial, as other people reported: quercetin and/or rutin (intracts with meds, check out the interactions first hand, pharmacists will be useful, you are on your own), etifoxine, low dose naltrexone, even benzodiazepines help with inflammation as well (diazepam and clonazepam inhibit some overactive immune cells). Others report that weekly shots of B12 helped (italian bell palsy protocols are 500-1000mcg weekly for 8 weeks)
Thanks, and thanks for the other message you sent me. Sorry I didn't see your comment amongst the rabble.
Some things I should note that I didn't consider or think to mention earlier.
1. I've changed from one type of Omega-3 concoction to another. The first stuff I was using from Jamieson was the Wild Salmon & Fish oil 1,000mg pills. It took taking 2,000mg to 3,000mg daily without fail to reduce the symptoms.
Meanwhile, the new bottle I got is just other fish oils. The difference here seems to be something to do with triglycerides and the EPA and DHA amounts in these pills vs the original bottle. The OG bottle has basically 2.5x less than the 2nd bottle. Also from Jamieson.
The new bottle? I only take one pill every other day now, maybe skipping til a 3rd day. Haven't tested further beyond that yet. From this very basic and rudimentary 'data', one could perhaps propose that the DHA and EPA amounts are part of what is helping here, since it falls in line with what I would have gotten with the larger dose of the original bottle of Omega-3 I got.
2. Also, The B vitamins are also in my system commonly anyways due to Centrum multivitamins. This obviously isn't as concentrated a dosage as taking a shot of it weekly; but daily consumption of the recommended dosage should keep things adequate I would think. That said, I really should get another bottle of B100 complex.
3. I don't take any other medications right now, beyond imbibing upon alcohol from time to time and enjoying some marijuana on a more common basis. That last one will increase anxiety for some people, but it's always been more of a relaxant for me. Barring of course the rare instances where I find myself in a bad spot from some strong stuff. Regardless of this however, I have been slowly reducing my usage of marijuana and swapping to more CBD based cartridges over high THC for just in case I am just sabotaging myself. To put this into perspective; none of this seems to have really changed anything much. Only the Omega-3 so far has had any noticeable effect.
Even going without for a week did nothing. If anything, I was more irritable and anxious from being irritable. Which is why I started smoking weed to begin with long ago anyways, lmao. So even if this isn't helping, it's also not hurting anything? Sort of...
4. I've been trying to swap to more natural ways of dealing with my issues. I've known people on those benzo's and I just won't be going anywhere near those. The others though, I might look into. I'm not against using proper medication where it is appropriate. But I am definitely looking for ways to handle my issues on a more personal and natural basis. Why?
Because doctors/pharmacists aren't everywhere in Canada. Only in the cities and bigger towns really. And I don't intend on living in those forever, so I need to find ways to deal with my problems on my own to some degree, ya dig?
Anyways. Thanks for the help. Best of luck, and yes a high speed recovery is very much needed and hoped for.
According to the CDC, "whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent and higher-titer initial antibody response." [1]
It would seem strange if the vaccines are able to induce higher S protein antibody titers than a typical infection while producing an orders-of-magnitude lower level of S protein in the body (but perhaps I am wrong there -- the human immune system is full of counterintuitive and strange workings).
I have allergies. To dust, pollen, perfumes, etc. No foods, but the earth hates me essentially lol.
So that means my body goes into overdrive when it thinks it is being attacked. (As I understand in regards to the immune system and how its linked to my allergic attacks.)
I don't think I truly lost anything cognitively. I think I may have restored most of any loss that happened. But... I also forced my body to do a niacin flush and other things like that. Not recommending it. Just adding on what I was doing.
Unless they injected the shot into your hippocampus like the research article (which would be most irregular), the brain-blood barrier probably kept it out?
Wrong. autopsies on covid deaths show the spike protein in the brain.
It's been in every autopsy report after report for TWO years. Time to maybe finally accept that viruses that infiltrate the brain can also cause neurological problems?
Personally, I thought Dark Ages were over, but then covid happened and it turns out people have really hard time accepting unpleasant truths. Post-viral syndromes are not well correlated to severity of illness. It can happen even after a relatively mild disease, and destroy your life.
Instead, people get questioned about their sanity. Witch trials next, I presume?
Parent edited their post removing the context that they asked about whether it was likely that the vaccine had gotten into their brain matter. You are right that the virus has been observed to sneak into the brain and cause damage. I think researchers have previously even said a COVID diagnosis reduces IQ by 3 points on average?
I think we can all agree that injecting huge amounts of viral protein into your brain is not recommended.
This study did not include a control group which received non-spike protein viral antigens (from say influenza which is also known to cause neurocognitive problems). As such it does not prove any specific neurotoxic effect of Covid19. The mechanistic studies in the paper suggest it is non-specific inflammation which causes neuronal cell death.