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High-Tech Window Cling is Like a Volume Knob for Real Life (gajitz.com)
43 points by gmatty on Oct 29, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 30 comments


Created by an industrial designer, not an engineer. From the designer's website [0]:

> With its concentric broadband antenna rings, it harvests the energy of electromagnetic noise from Wi-Fi, and similar signals and this way also reduces the level of e-smog pollution in your environment.

facepalm. This is nonsense.

[0] http://id2studio.at/content/noise/


I think more likely this was made by some film students for a school project or something then by physicists with a working prototype.

I always thought the only way of doing this would be to have detached microphones positioned between the speaker and the target noise so the system has enough time to compute the inverse of the incoming waves and send them out with enough space to cancel in the correct phase.


Does anyone know where to follow this project, or perhaps if there's a Kickstarter or something? I can't seem to find anything outside of this one article. I would pay very good money for something like this. Ground floor apartments on major streets are awful. :-(


Yes, this should be on a crowdfunded project asap if the prototype in the video was really functional and no simulated sounds were added. I'd buy it in an instant! Maybe I'll attempt to promote it on Reddit to help with gaining more 'mass-appeal' traction.


I'm pretty sure it was CGI.


Yes, and there's whether it actually works IRL. I think it's feasible to have something like the concept, but there are quite a few hiccups along the way -- I'm no audio expert, but I suspect that a single microphone/speaker location may be unable to cancel satisfactorily the incoming sound field through the window. Also, Loud noises creep in through various places, so if your window is quite good already you many not get much improvement.

But a good concept and hard work (and hope) usually lead to quite good products...

I.e. noise cancellation in building is usually approached through "get better insulation", not through the plausibly cheaper "let's spread a speaker/mic array inside/outside to cancel what's coming form outside".


I've done quite a bit of signal processing in my day. Audio, image/computer vision, radio comms, etc. This product strikes me as not terribly honest for a few reasons:

Geometry

The mic/speaker assembly are in the middle of the window but the window has substantial size relative to the dimensions of the room and the distance the listener is from the device. What this means is that you have a multipath problem; the original sound can come through the whole window (even the wall!) but the canceling sound can only eminate from the speaker.

If you draw a straight line from the original noise source, through the device and from there it happens to head towards your ears, this can work. If not things will get jumbled up and it might cancel or it might actually reinforce the noise, rather than cancelling it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Directivity

Physics

A speaker is a device that works as a derivative of the original signal. That means it needs some amount of "advance notice" of the sound in order to be able to create the proper pressure wave to cancel out said sound. The "advance notice" is usually done by means of some distance between the microphone and the speaker but the device is very thin. Worse, the amount of "advance notice" depends on the frequency of the sound which generally makes it an intractable problem to solve for the transient case.

http://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_19.htm

So what people do is focus on periodic noises like hum, hiss, buzz, rumble, what-have-you. In this case you don't need to make sure that any one peak has it's inverse reproduced perfectly, you only have to ensure that ONE peak is cancelled out by SOME OTHER out of phase peak. If it takes a couple of cycles for the computer to catch on, no big deal that's just a bit of start-up noise. Bose headphones don't IMMEDIATELY make the plane quieter, they just do it so fast that you don't notice the amount of time it takes for the system to warm up. It seems instant even though it's not.

But what this means is that a bunch of the sounds being cancelled out probably wouldn't be cancelled out quite so nicely as a lot of them are transients like the bottles breaking or the construction site or the park.

I'd really love to be wrong about this. There's a joke that goes "An engineer will tell you it's impossible until you show him how to do it. Then he'll say it's obvious." It's entirely possible that this guy has figured something out that the rest of us haven't. But I will remain skeptical until I can actually put my hands on one and benchmark it for myself


    The mic/speaker assembly are in the middle of the window
    but the window has substantial size relative to the
    dimensions of the room and the distance the listener is
    from the device.
For what it's worth, the pictures in the article show a series of rings around the device that significantly increase its surface area, a component that is not present on the device in the video.


Yeah I'm not optimistic about those. They're clearly too small to be electromagnetic drivers (think magnets and coils) so best-case they're active piezo devices that are epoxied on (need to have a good bond) turning the whole window into a radiative speaker. Sadly those are limited to high frequency sound only (several kHz and up) so they wouldn't do much good for anything other than perhaps the bottle noise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Piezoelectric_speak...


Agreed 100%. This is a murderously difficult problem, so claims of miracles need to be received with some skepticism.


Damn, I should've known it was too good to be true. I did wonder though how come a corporation hadn't invented it yet though.


This is an obnoxious designer BS, this is just not doable for a host of reasons - from basic physics to unavailabilty of algorithms required to the lack of physical components liberally massaged into the rendering - so it's even more fascinating to see the HN thread filled with "take my money" and "awesome" comments.

Really, fellas? I don't mind a discussion on how it could possibly be done, but where's your rudimental critical thinking? Even reddit had a better discussion [1].

[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/1pdfb0/volume_knob_...


I'm not convinced about the ability to block out certain types of sounds (e.g. birds vs traffic), but blocking out certain frequencies should be quite possible.

Of course, there's one question the article didn't address: what proportion of sound is actually transmitted through window panes? One would expect that a whole lot of low-frequency sounds (traffic) would come through the walls too.


I got the impression it would play bird sounds, i.e. a "zen" noise generator, not filter actual bird sounds through.


That's certainly more realistic, but I think it was pretty clear in the video that the device identified the various types of sounds coming from outside, and allowed the user to independently control the amount of each to be let through.


This is complete and utter fiction.


well... Maybe not complete fiction. Almost total fiction I would say.


Selective noise cancellation could be possible using a Fourier transform. Zero out the coefficients that you still want to hear and then perform an inverse transform, then a time-domain inversion, and finally apply the appropriate amount of delay to the signal.


You might know this, but I want to state it at least for the benefit of people reading this without much signal processing experience. Just zeroing like that really isn't the best idea. Square waves (that are 1 for signals that you want and 0 for signals you don't want) inverse Fourier transform to sinc functions[1], so if you are filtering just by chopping things out, it will greatly distort the time-domain system because the inverse Fourier transform of the filter and the signal get combined (convolved) in the time domain.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinc_function


Yeah exactly right. If you don't make it smooth in the frequency domain it won't be smooth in the time domain either.


Wouldn't the result would be as smooth as the FFT's window function?


Most of what they 'demo' in the video are nonlinear sources, they'll need a lot more processing smarts than a simple FFT to sort that out.


That would be more like an equalizer than selecting out particular "sounds".


Your answer is very fascinating, can you please explain it like I'm five?


The basic idea is that it is possible to transform a signal without loss of information from being some value vs time (so called time-domain signals) to being a bunch of different frequencies with different intensities (so called frequency domain) where the frequencies are just sine and cosine waves. A pure sine wave in the time domain gets transformed into just one value with the same amplitude as that wave in the time domain.

To see why this is useful, imagine a song you wanted to listen to that was recorded with a low-pitch hum in the background because the microphone running next to a power cable and picked up the 60 Hz signal. Removing this unwanted tone by looking at the value of the song in time is really hard because the 60 Hz signal is mixed up with the rest of the song. However, when transformed into the frequency domain, the 60 Hz hum is very easy to spot and remove. When you transform the signal back into the time-domain (so you can listen to it), the 60 Hz will still be gone.

This process can be done automatically with computers using a technique called the Fast Fourier Transform. This is the basis of many techniques in the field of Digital Signal Processing (DSP) which is the theory behind most of the communication breakthroughs of the last 40 years. I should note that many naive approaches to this problem (like the approach in my example) don't work particularly well, so as in any problem domain, there are important but subtle performance trade-offs to consider.

[1] http://www.dspdimension.com/admin/dft-a-pied/


Does anyone remember those suction cup speakers that attached to windows and turned them into speakers?

Years ago I wanted to splice a noise canceling headphone into one of these devices and make the windows noise canceling. Would that even be feasible?


I totally hate active noise cancelation... I don't know whether it only gets out like 99% of the noise while leaving like... the outlines of a clipped out picture on photoshop or what, but it's hell on my ears. It just causes pain without any indication of whats causing it and that's incredibly unnerving.


I looked into noise cancellation technology a while ago, because I have a hobby woodshop, and I want to be able to use my tools past 10 pm.

I just don't believe this concept could work the way the video demonstrates it. Nice interface though... but that's kind of the easy part.


I'll believe it when I see it...


That was a fantastic video.




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