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It's difficult to see any of the alternatives displacing batteries for short-term storage. Batteries aren't a good fit for long-term storage, which is where alternatives should be competitive. But that market is essentially 0 right now.


Batteries (High capacity chemical) are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic:

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/dry-cell-ba... https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002805.htm https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-703-health-concerns...

And cannot always be easily recycled:

https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-09/Lithium-I...

In addition to general concerns about chemical availability, and processing issues.

E.g. Demand expected to outstrip supply as soon as next year:

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight...


There's also various schemes to use gravity. Pump water uphill above a dam when power demand is low like at night, also I have read speculation of trying to do this in some underground mine or something so it doesn't evaporate.


That has even a worse energy density and thus requires a lot of space.

We have nuclear energy, we don’t need to use technology from the medieval ages.


"Batteries are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic"

Only some are toxic. But can you name the poison or danger with saltwater batteries?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery


Yes, there are excellent non-"battery" technologies. I'm explicitly talking about the high capacity chemical batteries everyone's crazy for these days.


Sodium ion batteries are chemical and can have as much capacity as you like. They just need a bit more space, but not too much more, as they are already used in cheaper electric cars.

"Chinese automaker Yiwei debuted the first sodium-ion battery-powered car in 2023. It uses JAC Group’s UE module technology, which is similar to CATL's cell-to-pack design.[82] The car has a 23.2 kWh battery pack with a CLTC range of 230 kilometres (140 mi)."

And for grid storage, "slightly bigger size" really doesn't matter.


A nuclear reaction has a factor of one million more energy per Mol as compared to chemical reactions.

Why would want to build an enery system on low-energy-density technology?

That would be equivalent to using relays for building computers in 2024.


There are lots of companies trying to build out different kinds of flow batteries for storage. Think of a shipping container filled with some substance that stores charge and just sits there, waiting for you to use it, grid storage. But they all seem like research projects. https://news.mit.edu/2023/flow-batteries-grid-scale-energy-s...


There have already been some flow battery startups going bust since that started.

But there are many battery companies for gird batteries. Flow is just one type and one that seems far less poplar now-days. They were all the hype like 10-15 years ago.

The problem is the Li-commodity race has already beaten most of those designs. You need to use very, very cheap materials. Form Energy considered some flow designs but rejected them.

That's why Form Energy are going to things like Iron batteries, because Li batteries will never reach those numbers.

But very few of those alternative have had any real commercial success yet.


What is the use case of long term storage in batteries? As some kind of reserve?


Depends on what long term means. But batteries are used for power grid storage. Tesla is selling huge numbers of tesla megapacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Megapack) often used to replace peaker plants.

Peaker plants are power plants sitting there ready to turn on during peak power usage. I think they used to be often coal, which took a while to start up and produced lots of pollution, but then more recently natural gas plants start up faster and have much lower emissions. So during an evening power usage peak, or during really cold or hot times when power demand is high, the grid can tap that power source. Now you can replace those plants with a bunch of batteries that are ready in milliseconds to provide additional power, and then you can charge them if they get used up at night when electric usage is low.


Yeah, I think my question was a bit fuzzy, what is the definition of long term? Batteries are excellent for short term storage, days or weeks but they don’t have the same storage performance as fossil fuels of where talking months and years.


“Long term” in industry parlance means “greater than 8 hours”




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