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I think the author didn't go to the same France I live in.


It's definitely true that the author is painting an idealistic picture here, and that French kids do throw tantrums, etc.

However, having lived in the US and France extensively (I'm French and have been raised by French parents), I find that the author has the good points about general attitude.

"We're not at your service" is something that my parents would often say to me and my brothers as kids, and there was always a distinction between "grownups" and "kids" - when my parents had their friends over for dinner, we knew that they were not to be interrupted and just played with their friends' kids (and everyone was happy that way, actually- grownups got their time to enjoy, and since they were busy we were free to do things between kids that we wouldn't have tried to do had they been watching).

Parents tend give more independence to their kids as well- for example having no problems sending them off to summer camps for a few weeks so that they can have some vacation of their own.

However, I have also worked extensively with kids in France over the past 5+ yers, and find that parents are slowly adopting the "anglo-saxon" way- there are much more "helicopter" parents now than there used to be.


Manule, When Americans go to Lyon, they go to France, when they go to France they go to Europe.

You don't need to go to France to find well-behaved children, but this is what appeals to Americans the most: "Beautiful redhead child", France is great, etc. And these reaffirming notions are great in appeasing your audience and selling books.

Interesting article b/c Gary Marx, Professor Emeritus in Sociology at MIT, wrote (in 1961) :

http://web.mit.edu/gtmarx/www/whitenegro.html

Be warned, you may be slightly offended. A synopsis. On the cusps of the "revolution" in 1961 America, Marx states American mothers were increasingly trying to be "hip". Now, there is actually a magazine called "Hip Mama" sold at Whole Foods ( http://hipmama.com/ )

He mentions a story about a hippie, who were then called "beats", firing a caretaker because the caretaker's thoughts on raising children was too rigid, traditional and overbearing. I think this is where the temper-tantrum nation , me-first phenomenon began.

I have friends like the author of this article who want to empower their children, not tell them "no", etc. For them, it comes from an almost religious belief in freedom. Meaning , whenever making a decision focus on what is most free as opposed to what works.

I remember watching a segment about a high school science class in Oregon who threw imported crayfish into a local stream because they didn't believe in killing, and wanted the crayfish to be free. Well, the non-local crayfish started killing off the local crayfish.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june11/pledge_03-...


> As has often been noted, the black bourgeoisie take a very positive stand toward middle-class values and are very critical of average Negroes. Frazier has written, "they have accepted unconditionally the values of the white bourgeois world: its morals and its canons of respectability, its standards of beauty and consumption. In fact, they have tended to overemphasize their conformity to white ideals." 2 They have strongly internalized middle-class values emphasizing self-control, deferred gratification, achievement, extreme cleanliness and rigid moral standards.

Never thought that an Eddie Murphy sketch would be close to on-topic on HN, but here it is anyway (I think his story refers to the late '60s-early '70s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsbk_lwioxY


Could you explain your first sentence?


Yeah, that's also the impression I got (the "no throwing food or temper tantrums" for instance, or "sleep full nights from 2-3 months", some of my friends would like to live in that fantasy).

Other assertions do hold, at least in my experience, though:

> When French friends visited, by contrast, the grownups had coffee and the children played happily by themselves.

but I'd really find anything else weird.

> And there were no fixed mealtimes; the American kids just went to the refrigerator and took food whenever they wanted. To the French couple, it seemed like the American kids were in charge.

When I went to the US, I did notice this difference (no fixed mealtimes, at least during the day, and regular raiding of the fridge whenever) but I don't see how that makes it "seem like the American kids were in charge", it's just that there's no fixed mid-day meal time.


Well, go to Eurodisney and compare kids that speak different languages. French kids are generally well behaved, with other southerneuropeans being the noisiest.




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