Right when it wasn’t subject to centralized control which could actually, easily, and covertly scam people. Just because you say something doesn’t mean it’s true or smart. Being short in the delusion of being clever is a sin of rationality and you should repent to Hitchens as soon as you can.
Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme because IF it successfully achieves a certain level of adoption or usage it WILL have some intrinsic value. The current value can be seen as a view of the average expected future value. A risky bet/investment is not the same as a Ponzi scheme, even if _some_ people are talking it up like scammers.
The fact that YOU do not believe that future will happen doesn't make it a Ponzi, just a bad investment in your eyes. And yes, some people talking up their book and trying to manipulate it's price — a pump and dump — is still a scam on their part, but it doesn't make the underlying asset a Ponzi scheme.
At a bare minimum there are some fringe use cases (no matter how unsavoury - dark web, ransomware, etc.), so I'd argue that barring a major security flaw, even if bitcoin was banned everywhere, the floor price would be >0. (I am considerably more optimistic for long term use cases, but we're just talking about whether it's a Ponzi or not here, which doesn't require any extra optimism.)
I honestly don't know if BTC will end up above the current price in 2, 5, 10, 50 years time, but I do still think it's incredibly cool that we were able to create something with a demonstrable non-zero value and no centralised control.
The challenge now is to keep iterating the ideas, make new weird and wonderful things, throw them all at the wall, and see if anything sticks. Luckily plenty of people seem as excited about that research and exploration for the sake of it as me, so I think we're going to get to find out :)
its interesting that at this point, the arguments on HN have become so one sided and idiotic, that every time i see a web3 article, you might as well skip the comment section. the actual smart people that are into the blockchain as tech and a concept are providing really interesting points/examples, while maintaining a healthy and educated level of skepticism.
then you have the HN holier than thou geniuses who think they have it all figured out because they can quickly scream ponzi over and over. it's fuckin weird. i always subscribed to this forum because it's full of nerds who are deeply interested in tech and can debate things neutrally. so not the case lately.
and this is coming from someone who is deeply interested in the tech and fascinated by some of the subscultures that had been created out of crypto, while also remaining extremely skeptical and very turned off by some of the scams and mindless fanatics that exist. but, i still dive deep into whitepapers, and read a lot to have a good opinion on a subject, like...you should. there is A LOT of interesting shit in this space. i've been into it for a couple of months now and have yet to scratch the surface, honestly.
...yet the comments are always the same low effort crap which makes me realize nobody knows or understands a goddamn thing about this tech on here. really reductive surface level points.
> the actual smart people that are into the blockchain as tech
actual smart or just hustlers? It is a scam. Yes, you can make money from it. But are you ok with ripping people off? Because the only way to make a gain with any coin is to force the next bigger fool to sit on a bigger loss. They might not have realized it but it's there. All of these made up usages are just there to trick people to buy your coin at an elevated price -- but there's still no uses of coins which have a real world use case and couldn't be better done with a centralized database (or sometimes git). I just wrote up in a top comment that when tech does deliver something real it needs no explanation or these discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29951993
You also can take a very lucrative job at Facebook. It might be interesting tech too. I refused one this week.
You can also like... use the technology to get the coins. Mine from your laptop for some BTC. Use some of those 2TB hard drives in your drawer to host files. Sign up for airdrops, provide liquidity in defi... I haven't spent alot on buying any coins and i enjoy the space. I've always treated it like this neat little world that me and my friends can compete in. See who can out nerd the other nerds, have late night rust marathons to do stupid shit with substrate.
You seem to forget that it's about interacting in the crypto economy, not selling all your coins to make more fiat. I wonder how long this fad will last of people hating on crypto because they don't understand it.. Probably forever?
i can tell by this comment that you've spent no time in the space and it's all made in bad faith so i'll just disengage here and save us both the time.
Bitcoin is a scam -- whether you call it a Ponzi or a Nakamoto scheme as suggested by Preston Byrne -- because the players are split into two groups, where each member of one group is guaranteed to win and the second en masse is guaranteed to loose, further they are funneling this loss to the members of the first group.
Edit: I can't answer for some reason below but I can edit this one, it's miners vs everyone else.
That's what the big blockers thought, and they got their own BCH network to show for it. I can't find any adoption metrics to show that the miner-controlled BCH chain has won.
On BTC, miners just run the code and get rewarded to do that simpleton job.
This seems to be an incredibly simplistic view to me. I can’t even identify which of these two supposed groups I would fit into, let alone map it onto the rest of the people I’ve met who are somehow interested, involved, or invested in bitcoin…
