Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell.
There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning.
It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in.
Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics.
Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.
I can echo this - our company runs off dell machines and our laptops came with these docks.
Despite (in happier times) having to leave my desk frequently for meetings, with my laptop, I'd rather faff about with plugging and unplugging multiple cables than have to deal with the frustration of peripherals randomly losing connection while you're in the middle of working.
I support a LOT of Thunderbolt docks for clients in my IT work and have also had experience with a lot of them personally.
My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.
I have a CalDigit and a KVM switch to support a desktop and laptop. The setup works just fine with one DP out from the CalDigit, one DP out from the KVM, and an MST hub driving two 1440p monitors. Cabling looks like below. I'm ignoring power and several peripherals.
The only cable I deal with on a regular basis is the thunderbolt from the CalDigit dock to the laptop. When coming or going, that's the only cable I need to care about. I can switch all input and output at the press of a button on the KVM.
I haven't measured latency, but there's nothing noticeable in my day to day experience, which includes gaming as well.
The desktop only goes through the KVM and the MST hub. The laptop additionally goes through a dock. I don't consider the devices to have the same purpose at all.
The dock serves several purposes for me:
1. Single cable to manage when taking or bringing the laptop (just one Thunderbolt carries all signals and power).
2. USB hub, as my laptop only has two USB ports.
3. Wired ethernet for the laptop.
4. Cable management - everything else plugging into the dock (audio, DP, ethernet, several other peripherals I use for day job).
The KVM is a switch and serves a different, specific purpose:
5. As it says in the name, switch inputs and outputs across multiple machines.
And the MST hub serves yet another purpose.
6. Allow one DP out to carry signal for multiple monitors.
There are KVMs that can act as an MST hub, but I wouldn't expect any latency difference there. It's still performing the action of presenting two displays to a single DP output. There are also monitors that support MST. Those monitors were much more expensive than mine when I was purchasing. The MST hub was a cheaper option for me than either getting a new monitor or getting a KVM that included such functionality.
Whether MST goes through an embedded hub in a KVM, or through an external hub, or through an embedded hub in a monitor, I'm not sure I see where any configuration would win on latency. They all need to do the same thing.
The thunderbolt dock also serves a different purpose than the KVM.
My laptop has decent connectivity - onboard ethernet, 2xUSB-A, 1xUSB-C/Thunderbolt, power. I would need a USB hub. So I could definitely plug in all of the cables every time I bring my laptop to my desk. I prefer not to. The Thunderbolt dock allows me to tuck away all of those extra cables and just run one to my laptop. Additionally it lets me keep the charging brick packed in my laptop bag. If I didn't have a dock, I'd have bought another charging brick.
My desktop has more connectivity than I can use, but it doesn't have Thunderbolt. It doesn't need thunderbolt. And I don't want to spend money or space for a PCIe Thunderbolt card that I do not need. And I didn't have any need for Thunderbolt or a KVM when I built my desktop.
There may be a thunderbolt KVM, but I didn't come across them. But I'd need to buy other hardware for my desktop. Or I'd have to find a KVM that can switch between a thunderbolt input and a DisplayPort/USB/Audio input. Such a device, if it exists would likely be quite expensive.
I don't know of any KVMs that also provide ethernet, nor do I want to switch ethernet among my computers in the manner that a KVM switches. So I'd still need to run multiple cables to my laptop whenever it comes to the desk.
So, our setups may be different, but I need all of the functionality I described above. I haven't found any single box that will do it all. I am perfectly happy to build a solution as I've described out of multiple components. And I will continue to get value out of each component, even as my setup changes.
The MST hub is great, because I can run one cable to the back of my monitor from any DP device and have a two-monitor setup. This is sticking around regardless of the rest.
The KVM will have use as long as I have multiple computers.
The dock will be valuable as long as I have a laptop with a thunderbolt port.
A hypothetical dual thunderbolt KVM with MST is more limited than the current setup. Its only potential benefit is some desk space, but even this can be managed just fine. The dock is on its way to mounting behind the desk.
As for system latency, my understanding is that the only additional latency from the KVM should be in USB peripherals, as it does serve as a USB hub. The audio and video signals are passed straight through so far as I know.
The CalDigit only has one dedicated DisplayPort, but you can also plug a USB-C to DisplayPort cable into the outgoing ThunderBolt port - I had dual 4k60 monitors running for a while that way.
DisplayPort daisy chain is specifically unsupported by Mac OS since forever. If you dual-boot an Intel Mac to Windows (via BootCamp) it'll daisy chain just fine, so the hardware supports it, but booted to Mac it'll just ignore the second monitor in the chain.
If you are lucky enough to own a Thunderbolt (note: not displayport) monitor, that can chain to a displayport monitor. But thunderbolt monitors are rare as all get out these days.
It's only on PCs that it doesn't work properly, because PC makers suck and never bothered to be honest about implementing Thunderbolt 3 properly. They didn't even tell the truth about it. That's why we have this utter silliness called "Thunderbolt 4". All Thunderbolt 4 is, is Thunderbolt 3, but actually implemented properly, with no wiggle room for chintzy PC makers to weasel out.
I have the WD19 and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
If you want to answer they have to because they sell Linux preinstalled: Their Ubuntu is garbage. If you setup Archlinux on your own, some features which haven't worked before will work, for example backlight oder hw acceleration.
Still better than Lenovo telling it's a feature to not setup proprietairy Linux drivers on devices who need them.
I have a 9310, and the stock Ubuntu was OK. The biggest issue is thermald was older and limited the frequency boosting (so lower perf).
I run 20.10 now with thermald master and kernel 5.10.1 (includes patches which enable pc10 sleep states and 400mhz cpu idle speed). Now it boosts and idles appropriately.
What’s “backlight oder hw acceleration” are you referring to refresh rate or something like PSR? I want to know if it’s something I need to check on my 9310...
"oder" is "or" in German, so I think they meant "backlight or hw acceleration".
I own a more recent Dell XPS 13, and the keyboard backlight support is indeed buggy - it needs a configuration patch to prevent it from turning on on logon.
Not sure what's exactly the hw acceleration. If they refer to the Intel integrated GPUs, the configuration is pretty much standard; up to 18.04 the only thing I needed to configure was the VSync (this was the same also for other laptops), but with 20.04, I didn't need anymore.
Recently wasted a morning at the office swapping all variants of Dell thunderbolt and USB-c docks, kept getting weird USB errors. Most frustrating was I couldn't reproduce the error at the helpdesk with same dock. The weirdest thing was usb peripherals were working fine, but somehow Windows kept giving me a non suppressable popup every minute ad infinitum. I don't see the point of docking stations anymore now you can get 49" screens with USB-c connectors. No reason to put a docking station in between or dual screen setups anymore
I have this dock.. I basically just use it for the power and DisplayPort to a 4k60 display... since USB is awful on it I have a USB hub I plug in to the notebook also...
So I guess calling that thing a “dock” is generous
> the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frame
I have a USB-C Novoo thingy (PD passthrough, HDMI, 3x USB-A, Ethernet) that might do something like that. If I plug Ethernet into my home router it ends up killing all other ethernet links on this router in about two minutes. I unplug it and things come back to life in under a second.
The thing also has a habit to produce EM interference that makes WiFi useless. Would you believe, running a ping and wrapping the device's cord in tin foil back and forth and you can see the packet stop dropping and start again.
I've used the WD19. I haven't experimented with Linux, but it's a pretty screwy device. A firmware update meant that it stopped playing "which device is going to work today" lucky dip, but it is always a festival of that Windows "hey, something interesting happened at a hardware level" noise as it takes 10 seconds and 3-4 redraws of the whole screen to finally figure out where all the displays are.
Yup, we had a good venting session at our Dell rep about this issue last year.
They were very aware of the issues, very apologetic and suggested we try some sorta displaylink garbage in the meantime. We did, and then as soon as the WD19 came out we tested that, and it's been night and day.
They still require custom drivers but 99% of issues disappeared. I had one issue with a laptop that likely had a faulty tb module and was failing back to usb 3.1 but no other complaints from anyone.
Well aside from the lack of usb ports on the thing... the Eport had like 8 usbs, the wd16 had 5 and now we're down to 3 on the wd19, that'd be fine if the laptops didn't keep dropping usb-a's also, most of the 7000 line only has 2 now. I refuse to get a usb dock to plug into the wd19 just for usb, that's insane and I'm not a crazy person.
Tried loads of TB docks (as well as USB3 ones) and gave up. They all have annoying quirks. I finally settled with a Razer Core Chroma, with Ethernet and USB. My MBP16 is finally silent with external displays, and the offloading really helps during video calls.
I had the original Razer core right when it launched. Razer did an excellent job with their eGPU TB3 enclosures. In my case, a firmware update made the USB ports practically unusable, and I eventually got Razer to accept it as a return, but I'm eventually going to go with them and their future iterations of the Core once I get a laptop that supports TB3/4.
Hold on! Is this why ethernet is exhibiting intermittent and impossible to diagnose behavior for me at work, and only for me?! Do you have some more information?
What is typically called ‘ethernet’ is actually a family of interrelated protocols. Correct implementations are costly since they require quality components and fine-tuning between hardware, firmware, and software levels.
Most consumer products just use generic components that some factory negotiators were willing to offload for cheap. The high end products with megabucks contracts are the ones capable of hitting guaranteed reliability targets.
Apple, like for most other components, is the only big consumer brand that consistently uses something better than whatever was cheapest in Shenzhen. Even business oriented brands, like Western Digital, Brother, etc., have been cutting costs in these areas recently for their cheapest lines. Boutique smaller brands like CalDigit, Lacie, etc., who justify their premium pricing with quality, also usually puts effort into doing it correctly.
Also avoid the HP Thunderbolt Dock - was a steaming pile that is!
On 2 identical laptops (fresh builds), 1 of them BSODs, the other works sometimes, but BSODs at random when resuming from sleep or plugging in devices.
They've releases various versions of the firmware, along with various versions of various drivers that need to be installed on the laptop. Only some random variations of these work, and only on some devices, and only some of the time. Total garbage.
I do have it, too and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
The TB16 works alright after updating it to the newest firmware, but still has it's quirks. For example, my mouse lags / cuts out briefly, now and then (I plug it in direct).
The TB19 I use when working from home appears to have little to no issues (none that I can think of right now).
I had tons of problems with my TB16 and one prior Dell dock but the WD19 has been working flawlessly all year. I have used it with my XPS 7550 and 7590 and had no problems. I also have had good experience using it with a MacBook Pro 15.
That's a bummer to hear; I have the WD15 dock through work and it's been excellent; I have a bunch of complaints about the XPS itself (power management, for example), but that dock has been great.
I dunno, TB is basically a mass of high frequency analog madness with long cables thrown into the mix. I, kind of astonished that it works at all, at any price.
I have the WD15 connected to a 2016 MacBook Pro and it is incredibly unreliable. USB devices stop working randomly (mouse+keyboard), ethernet comes and goes as it pleases and the display output works for one month before stops working all together. The only thing that works reliably is power supply.
I was really impressed with the Dell WD19TB dock I was issued from work for COVID. I had never used a dock before, but having all my external displays (I used 2 DP, but I think it could handle 3 at once if using HDMI too), Ethernet, all the USB, and charging all through one port was amazing.
Personally I disagree, I love my WD19TB. It's hooked up to all my peripherals and monitor, and until a proper TB3 KVM comes into existence, I plug it into my laptop or desktop as needed. Nice to be able to swap a single plug and get full speed everything.
I'm referring to the sheer volume of calls I got to replace or update or reset the docks. It was probably in the top three of calls I would get maybe even #1.
There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning.
It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in.
Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics.
Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.