Romanian telecom: post communist crash Romanian telecommunications were a disaster. For example two different phone numbers shared the same line (a.k.a. Cuplajul). In late 90s some western telecom companies started investing in Romanian cellular networks- they built all the tower and network infrastructure. I do not understand what you mean when you say the west stole telecoms from Romanian - the west actually built it.

Energy, oil and gas- the heydays of Romanian oil producing days were during the WWII when Romania supplied a lot of the oil used by the Germans. After that Russians took whatever was left over because of war reparations. Since I can remember Romania did not produce oil - it was dependent on Russian imports during communism for example. So there was no oil and gas for the West to steal either.

Re: NATO - in the 90s and early 2000sn Romania wanted to join NATO because that particular generation remembered the Russian all too well. The priceRomania paid was enforcing the embargo on the Serbs during the Kosovo and Bosnian wars.

Re: F16 - romanians are flying some hand me downs from Holland which were purchased at the dizzying price of 1 euro.

I am sorry, but you sound like a Romanian nationalist, one who unfortunately is convincing enough do that the current generation does not know how much better their lives are because of EU and NATO. But who knows, maybe they will get a chance to find out…

[edit - some typos]

Anybody who rationally without nationalistic blinders evaluates that will come to the same conclusion. The idea that a Romania independent of Europe, with its shitty Post-Communist economy and the shitty companies it had could have done massively better is frankly delusional.

The idea that all foreign investment and foreign companies operating in other country is negative and explorative is simply wrong. That is the case both for individual works, company productivity and the countries economy. This has been shown to be true in tons of management studies. Insofar as Romania had issues, it its own internal corruption and other issues that they handled less well then Poland or the Baltic's.

> Why doesn't US, China or Russia want that type of help?

Russia did want the economic integration, foreign investments and so on, they just wanted it less then being an imperial power lead by a dictatorship.

If you think that is a better path for Romania then integration with the EU you are utterly braindead.

As for the US and China. The US already has its own set of alliances and cooperative agreements. It also is geographically very different and its so rich that if it was part of the EU it would be a net contributor.

China is again a dictatorship with like 1 billion people that believe they can build a system like US or the EU has themselves. And they of course did take at least large part of that package when they opened to the US and integrated the economy far more. They had foreign investment, much loser capital markets and so on.

To compare Romania Post-Communist situation with any of these, is laughable. And non of those paths are even remotely even an options.

Romania could be more like Poland, the Baltics or more like Ukraine or maybe like the Post-Soviet 'stans' just with less gas.

And of those options its perfectly clear what the right plan is.

If you have some brilliant alternative plan for Romania please share because apparently you are smarter then literally every other post Communist leader in any of those small countries. Or better yet, try to get elected on that platform. Just be aware that the massive amount of direct money and other benefits will go away, and then go watch how many people will still vote for you.

Realistic best case for that plan is that you become Belarus.

I never claimed Romania would have been better under Russian than the EU. I just asked you to show me that your claimed "help" they gave to Romania came from a selfless position without any financial strings attached in return for said help, because it wasn't.

Corporations in US, Germany, Austria, France, profited immensely, and still do from their operation in Romania they bought with cents on the Euro/Dollar. In fact, they often make higher profits fleecing consumers and customers in Romania than those in their home countries. EU and NATO accepted Romania because they could profit from them, that's it. I know, I worked for German and Dutch MNCs and saw the numbers coming from their offices across the world. Their offices in Asia and Eastern Europe were bringing in significantly more revenue per worker than those in NL simply because the consumers and workers in those countries get much worse deals than those in NL and Germany. It's basically neocolonialism with extra steps.

That was my point, that EU and NATO orgs are purely business transactional and nothing you get from them ever comes for free, and nothing in your follow-up comments disproved this, you just went on offtopic rants throwing accusations in my direction.

Later edit: also, on the NATO side, many Romanian troops died protecting US interest in Afghanistan, because I guess that's where America's borders are somehow, when they invoked Article 5 after Osama hit NY with two planes. Well in that case, a Russian drone hit us last week. Can US troops now please go die for us by invading Russia? Thanks. No? Well then that's the double standards I was referring to, that we only exist to serve their interests, buy their shit, die for them and that's it. Where is that mythical benevolent "help" you talked about?

And I told you that huge parts of the Romanian government budget came from the EU and that has been going on for decades. And what they had to 'pay' for it was to a agree to a set of rules that are beneficial for it as well.

At this point your defense is basically just denial and I can't take you seriously anymore.

Not having Romania would arguably be better for the EU no matter if some companies make ok business in Romania.

And Its also funny how you say 'I never claimed X' when the reality is you claim nothing because if you did you would have to propose an actual alternative, and any alternative you could come up with would be worse. Yes foreign companies are going to make money operating in your country, but that is not neocolonialism other then in your fantasy.

> nothing you get from them ever comes for free

Its almost certain the EU could have received much of the same trade and business benefits without cross-funding such an outrages amount of Romania's government and infrastructure for decades. The EU did that because it is an ideology and not just 'business'. There is a reason people in Germany and Britain were angry at EU, they have been funding much of Eastern European governments for decades. This is a simple fact that is undeniable.

> Later edit:

Romania sent troops to Afghanistan before they were part of NATO.

And NATO Artical 5 does not force you to send troops either. So please stop embracing yourself.

And you can dislike NATO and the American response to a single drone attack, but the US is giving you a nuclear umbrella that many countries would kill to have and many country spend huge parts of their budget on.

Here is something you did not bring up: nobody is forcing Romanians to buy EU goods. Romanians also buy a lot of Chinese and Korean goods. EU companies who make money off Romanian consumers compete with Chinese companies.

The fact that there are very few things made in Romania is not due to EU neo-colonialism- is it due to Romanians. There are one or two bright spots in Romania (Dacia, UIPath) but when the best educated young Romanians still cannot wait to leave the country you will not see local champions. And this is 37 years after the fall of Communism.

maybe you are a Romanian living in Romania. Maybe you will be able to convince Romanians to separate from EU and NATO. If that happens, I can’t wait to see the sequel.

Did we read the same comment? What help that was for free did he mention? Meaning help that Romania never paid back in kind by other ways.

>The fact that there are very few things made in Romania

Again you bring in more whataboutism offtopic shit that I or anyone else here never mentioned on this topic.

My comment about very few things being made in Romania was a clarification re: EU neo-colonialism.

I can’t tell if you are sincere or a shill. But maybe that is a sign you are a master shill.

What does this unrelated thing, have to do with what I was talking about, like banks like BRD being sold to French Groupe Societe Generale and BCR by Austria's Erste Group. Bringing up random whataobutism isn't arguing in good faith.

>Re: F16 - romanians are flying some hand me downs from Holland which were purchased at the dizzying price of 1 euro.

Just do some googling mate before talking:

The U.S. Response: "Not Our Problem"

  The leaked WikiLeaks cables from the U.S. Embassy in Bucharest revealed that U.S. diplomats and visiting Pentagon representatives had absolutely zero sympathy for Romania’s economic misery.

  The Ultimatum: U.S. representatives told Bucharest that if Romania chose a cheaper European alternative (like the Swedish Gripen or the Eurofighter), or if they tried to delay the purchase due to their financial crisis, it would severely damage Romania's political standing in Washington.

  American officials explicitly communicated that Romania's internal economic issues were their own problem. The U.S. objective was to secure the deal for Lockheed Martin, lock Romania into the U.S. defense supply chain, and ensure Romania paid its "dues."

  The cables exposed a deeply cynical dynamic that shocked the Romanian public when WikiLeaks published them:

  The U.S. viewed Romania as an easy target: American diplomats noted internally that Romanian politicians were so desperate for a security guarantee against Russia that they could be pressured into buying things they couldn't afford.

  The Romanian capitulation: Desperate to keep Washington happy, the Romanian Supreme Council of National Defense (CSAT) bypassed normal public tendering laws in 2010. They officially approved the acquisition of second-hand American F-16s, admitting privately that it was a political decision to appease the U.S., despite the fact that the country was in the middle of severe, painful economic austerity.

HEllo?! Austria's OMV buying Romania's oil reserves for the rock bottom price of 600 million Euros in order to lift EU veta? Then pulling the same shit again for lifting the Schengen veto? It's an extortion racket.

>you sound like a Romanian nationalist

Pointing out the crimes of our partners and allies is now "nationalism"?

Since 2000 organic food went from niche to mainstream.

See https://www.epa.gov/agriculture/organic-farming - "Pesticides derived from natural sources (such as biological pesticides) may be used in producing organically grown food"

https://apnews.com/article/psg-arsenal-paris-budapest-champi...

The idea that any hardware performance increase will be eaten up by terrible software is an evergreen. A computer that could serve as the single server for a medium size enterprise 20 years ago, is no longer able to serve as a desktop for a receptionist. I'm not even sure we're talking diminishing returns anymore, we're probably past the point of maximum yield and into the negative returns at this point.