IA's infra is slightly better for big loads though, they tend to just have higher latency rather than aborted/timed out requests, for better or worse. It can be bit slow, but as long as you're ready to wait, you'll eventually get the response. Usually hosts just cut you off with a hardcoded timeout instead, which for people on high latency/low bandwidth connections can be super fun.
Your point stands, it's very impressive. But Dragon in America was a cut above even that. Just look at the "chase scene" starting at 10:00 (even just 15 seconds should be enough to make my point)
For anyone not familiar with 3DMM, there was no facility to move "the camera" to any apparent camera movement was just moving each primitive object, as far as I know, one piece at a time.
This seems to have gone to -10 and then went up according to this, which matches what your comment had said that you were seeing -10 on your android.
Edit: (actually it had gone all the way to -15) and seems that this website has been still stuck at -8 upvotes at the moment of this comment and this link has also been the proof for me to finally see/confirm this as the submission now has positive upvotes.
It is hardly a satisfying answer, but I haven't the foggiest what caused it. I submitted it the same as I've submitted many other submissions in the past.
My comment on the other thread meanwhile wasn't nice at all, but it was also misdirected, and meant to refer to Hacker News rather than your own site.
(I like the style, too. It's good to see Helvetica get a deserved reevaluation, now that the millennial generation is aging out of even being able to imagine we are cool. Or ever were.)
My own profile on this website may help elucidate my perspective on the matter. I'm both shadowbanned and have applied a hundred-year "noprocrast" countdown, and it's frankly embarrassing how little that actually does to get the website not to accept those few contributions I still care to make.
It is as if the folks who run this place were getting a little desperate! - both for the "crowdsourced" unpaid work that goes into making this website worthy of interest, and for the last dwindling taste of what was once termed the "hacker spirit" by fringey weirdo ideologues like Stallman and Barlow.
(The idea that HTTP GET requests must be idempotent for safety, for example, has totally passed by this site's implementors and maintainers, or maybe never made a dent. Hence the subject of this very thread!)
In any case I regret the misplaced comment, and apologize for the dismay it likely caused. This website is embarrassing, and has just about run its course. Yours is not embarrassing at all, and I hope you're just getting started!
Maybe there is an API to downvote posts and some bots found it?
Edit: Actually I would wager that it’s some kind of automatic downvoting when the system detects bad votes or comments. Something like “friends shouldn’t vote”. Since we see voting on posts and not comments we could see it go negative.
I suspect there’s downweights the system can apply - and if five people voted it up, the -5 downweight was applied, and then four of the upvotes were removed, you’d end up at -4.
...because the opening line of the blog post says he's been "building websites with LLMs", and then attempts to cutely redefine that abbreviation as "Lots of Little htMl pages" in a parenthetical.
It's, um. Not the best kind of communication, and very easily leads to this kind of misunderstanding.
JavaScript doesn't effect screen readers at all unless you dynamically add content without the proper ARIA roles. It is trivial to correct.
As I just said, users who explicitly disable JavaScript cannot even use Google Search. Why should I accommodate those users when even Google refuses to do so? They are actively choosing to have a limited web experience. The vast majority of the internet is completely broken for them.
>A spotty connection hasn’t loaded the dependencies correctly - Either they load or they don't. How would the dependencies load "incorrectly"?
Let‘s say you have 5-7 dependencies to load, but 3 of them timed out because your train entered the tunnel. Your app ends up in incorrect state, fails silently and UX degrades unpredictably. This is where the conversion often drops visibly and the reason SSR is now a go-to solution for any marketing website.
Why am I loading dependencies from 5-7 places? Why is my website not using a bundler if it has so many varied dependencies? Why do we not expect the user to understand that they are in a tunnel without internet?
Regardless, this isn't really restricted to the usage of JavaScript. The website would likely have pretty bad UX if only half of the CSS loaded correctly, but no one programs defensively around it being absent.
Have you ever developed an enterprise scale frontend applications optimized for conversion targets? It feels like you have not. You may ship your own code in a bundle, yes. All integrations come on top of that. That chatbot, tracker, A/B testing logic etc - all are loaded separately from your service provider CDN.
An user opening a web page is not expecting a full-blown app with multi-second loading times. If that happens, they bounce, and you loose revenue. Web is supposed to have very short time to first content paint and very short time to interactive, the shorter, the better, less than 0.5s is the goal. It can deliver that, if built properly. Many SPAs, bulky JS apps are built this way for developer convenience, not for end users. The only real use case for SPA is when you deal with a lot of local data. A spreadsheet, document or image editor, a diagram tool (but then wasm is probably a better choice).
You may say, you are not building enterprise grade frontend. But if you are small enough, you don’t need SPA either.
Go on. How do I have no idea what I'm talking about? Why is it okay for a website to break simply because the analytics don't load? Why do you think that's good design? How is my personal, lived experience less valuable than yours?
Is it just that you're ashamed that you have made such poorly designed web apps that can't handle a few broken HTTP calls?
Is it just that you can't simply accept that JavaScript is a requirement for the modern web which is what this entire discussion is hinged upon?
You dismissed A/B testing as unnecessary. That is sufficient for this judgement. A/B tests mostly run on the happy path scenario of a customer: An A/B test breaks, the company is losing money at light speed.
The loading-related issues overall may eat 0,5-1% of the revenue. It is not something that should be an afterthought.
Lol, okay. I didn't know that every single customer was going to go through a tunnel as they loaded the page.
I didn't dismiss A/B testing. I'm just saying that, if the analytics don't load on the client, you should already have A loaded and ready to render. It's literally just a matter of a try/catch, and you shouldn't be waiting to load this stuff on the client-side anyways if this is truly supposed to be the "Happy Path".
Yes, I know that legacy software like Google Tag Manager requires client-side integration, but I would argue that is an orthogonal concern. You don't need to use that for your A/B testing. It's pretty easy to integrate this stuff into SSR-- especially if you stream in the HTML. This is why cookies exist.
And, again, none of this changes the central concept of this comment thread: JavaScript is necessary for the modern web experience.
Literally none of those things are necessary for a working website. If your site breaks when your analytics don't load, then that's just horrible design at any scale.
A normal person would immediately think "dang, page didn't load before I entered the tunnel. Guess I'll wait til I'm out again and refresh".
And if they're deliberately going somewhwre where there's no signal for an extended period of time, and really want it to work, they'll ensure they've loaded everything before doing so.
And I say this as someone who is developing a pwa that is for people with low end phones and very inconsistent and/or connections. I'm very cognizant and empathetic to their situation.
Anecdotal evidence does not beat statistics and user research. Bounce rate has inverse correlation to loading speed. People with low intent do not refresh, they simply don‘t come back and look elsewhere or just move on. Telling you this as someone who built first commercial website in 1999 and was a hyperscaler B2C startup CTO. Let‘s not measure the length of credentials.
To clarify, you're saying we should be jumping through convoluted hoops - full page navigation + js to rewrite history, all so that you can avoid a very minimal amount of js to show/hide a nav menu - for low intent people who are frequently entering tunnels?
Something like Datastar would enable this with like two html attributes, and only require 10kb of js (and would also allow for endless other things via declarative html).
> I'm just tired of being downvoted every single time I mention that JavaScript is necessary on the modern web
Downvotes should give you a hint that the few users that know what javascript is, don't like it, and the rest of them, if they learned, most likely won't like it either. Your attitude shows that you don't care.
My attitude shows that JavaScript is necessary for the modern web experience! No one has successfully argued against this yet-- nor have they even really tried! You're all just mad about my tone without even discussing the content as if this was a kindergarten class. This is absurd.
Let me get this right, you're saying that people on HackerNews don't know about JavaScript-- one of the most popular programming languages in the world?
> My attitude shows that JavaScript is necessary for the modern web experience! No one has successfully argued against this yet-- nor have they even really tried!
Exactly! I agree with you 100%! I, and many others, don't like the modern web experience and JS is the foundation that makes it all possible.
Yeah, and I don't like paying taxes or many other aspects of modern society, but I don't reflexively downvote anyone who mentions that you need to pay taxes to participate in modern society.
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