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Isn’t this obvious?

Over half of HN commentators visibly struggle to piece 3 or more complex ideas together.

How could anyone, who spent more than 30 minutes reading HN, expect otherwise?


HackerNews is social media and this is just representative of social media as a whole.

Critical thinking is at an all time low to start with but even if you attempt to think critically while using social media you cannot do it constantly. This is one of the problems with social media as a whole. You might notice one thing is not quite right and discard it but you cant do that constantly and eventually you will absorb one of the 15 posts or comments.


Well population grew significantly so it’s a bigger decline in per capita terms.

Notably this was even though AI systems got decent enough, supposedly, to do simple tasks and answer simple questions correctly.


That's not true. The population shrunk in the first quarter, so the GDP actually grew by 0.2% on a per capita basis.

Oh yes once you include non permanent residents the total number has gone down.

Don’t they supposedly have a huge amount of EU support?

Or at least there’s been a lot of noise about that.


I wouldn't be surprised if each of the frontier American labs and individually has compute access similar to the entire EU. Chinese firms are a more interesting comparison since there are a fair amount of great models there, and it's estimated about 15% of the ai relevant compute is in China versus maybe 5% in the EU under European companies (and 70% ish in the US is the most common ballpark I see)

I think you are underestimating the amount of compute the US frontier labs have access to.

So, more than 70% of the compute on earth?

More than 5%, I assume. From the combination of "5% in the EU under European companies" and "each of the frontier American labs and individually has compute access similar to the entire EU"

I dont't think that was meant to be implied: the EU actually has access to more GPUs than those hosted by European companies in Europe, just as US labs have access to GPUs hosted outside the US


They can get what, 1B euros? 10B when everyone loses their mind? This doesn’t buy nearly enough compute nowadays.

Meanwhile, Anthropic and OpenAI have investors practically begging them to let them buy this much equity at mind-bogging valuations.


The chinese labs manage to do it. Mistral should have enough money.

The EU has intentional structural hurdles to pouring money into a predetermined single company. Both hurdles meant to fight corruption and nepotism, and hurdles meant to ensure fairness between the member states. After all, money to Mistral is money to France too, and you don't want countries to abuse such mechanisms

It's not impossible, but China is just much better set up for the nessesary level of government support


China is a way more corrupt country but this might be a benefit of less rules.

China has cheap coal powered electricity and leaders that make things happen. Europe has beaureaucrats that only love talking, high taxes and expensive energy.

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You think they're intentionally being bad because they can't manage to pump $65B into a startup on a whim...?

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What claims are you talking about?

I've never heard or read anything about the EU planning on investing money in Mistral. They're a private company. They're French. It honestly sounds kind of absurd.


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No, we want you to backup your claims and provide sources or stop adding pointless low effort anti-EU noise to the conversation. It's frustrating, any time there's any kind of discussion about anything European on HN it gets flooded with shallow, low effort "EU-bad" posts like your contributions here.

If you're going to make that claim at least put some effort in.


This is a mostly American forum and some people want to piss on the EU to elevate themselves. Europeans do the same to the US but about politics, health care, work life balance, and quality of life. You know, the stuff that matters :D

Or maybe they’re just poor.

It's a bit strange, but a huge handout from the EU/France and a huge AI lab investment round are different orders of magnitude. The necessary sums are just not politically possible. How do you sell spending the equivalent of ten USS Gerald Fords on a start-up? You don't.

And a lot of the "funding" is through mutual deals with MSFT, Nvidia, etc. The Europeans have none of that and would need to pay in actual cash.

There is no way messenger features or functionality is changing that much year over year.

It’s almost entirely bloat.


Yeah it’s seriously shady to not disclose it at the beginning of the piece.

There are so many of these stories… it makes me wonder if humans in general have “general intelligence” either.

Or whether it’s only a small subset who do.


What people do is not well correlated with what they know. You can't reduce people to their behavior. You can reduce machines to their behavior.

If you disagree, I would strongly suggest you review where else you might be making this incorrect assumption.


You can't reduce people to their behavior ...

As a first approximation, why not? Behavior is generally all we have in front of us, plus any other assorted social signals. Internal mental states are invisible, as is the personal history of the individual. We might note a man beating a kitten on the sidewalk, and believe this behavior sufficient grounds to reduce this person to the category "dick", even if we remained unaware of his high intelligence, his doctoral paper on gender-inequality, and the fact his mother hates him.


If you don’t assess people based on their actions… then how do you assess them?

From my experience actions are easily worth thousands of times more than any other criteria.


Attaboy you're on the right track! We're almost in agreement. I'm saying that you cannot accurately assess people at all! All you can do is guess.

But when we assess a machine, we do know everything about it based on its actions.


> But when we assess a machine, we do know everything about it based on its actions.

This is obviously false. Every developer has had hour-long debugging sessions to track down a mysterious behavior. Sometimes entire teams are stumped by a technical glitch. Until the bug is found, nobody knows everything about the machine.


Yet the bug has a chance of eventually being discovered. If someone is determined to find it, they certainly will. You are not thinking clearly here.

This comment doesnt make sense.

How is it relevant to my question, whether you think someone else agrees with you… or not?

I just don’t see a reason for anyone to give you higher credibility than other HN users.


I think the parent is questioning how the fine relates to removing the goods from circulation?

Or is the intention of the law to allow for an unlimited number of supposedly illegal goods to circulate freely within the EU, just fined appropriately?


Are you sure?

From the data I’ve seen the bottom decile Americans consume significantly more per capita compared to even 2006.

e.g. plane travel was completely absent amongst the bottom decile in 2006, like so close to zero mileage per capita per annum it was a rounding error.


Is bottom decile consumption a good measure of economic health? In a way it seems it could signal the opposite, ie in the past the bottom decile was saving that money in an effort to change their economic conditions vs spending it now could indicate a lack of hope for upward mobility.

To your example it seems worth noting that the quality of the air travel experience appears to decline over time as well.


Bottom decile consumption is the best measure of economic health for the bottom decile… it clearly cannot be the best measure across the entirety of the population.

Real physical consumption is by far the hardest metric to game or play tricks with.

Yes technically, some probably are trading a bit of their future prospects for a nicer flight schedule, less red-eyes, etc… But I don’t see how that is relevant at all?


Plane travel is a very poor proxy for quality of life.

Home ownership, high-quality food, working hours etc. seem far more relevant.


Huh?

People will, intentionally, work longer hours to afford more frequent plane travel. And to upgrade classes, perks, lounge access, etc…

I’m pretty sure there are literally millions of people like that.


Yes actually, this is remarkably well studied:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...

I hate to imagine what this graph looks like today, given the massive amount of inflation that's happened in the last 6 years.


That is a pretty good analogy. Like exceedingly smart 5 year olds.

Or whatever the age is before children typically develop object permanence, a theory of mind, and so on.


Not to sound like a codger, but we even said in the 90s that computers are just very fast idiots.

And they've been getting faster! Still idiots though.

or pain perception

Huh? Don’t many jobs still have gold plated pensions?

Like millions upon millions?

They need to be paid out somehow.


Government jobs, yes. Of which there are more and more every year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USGOVT

true but be sure to see `All Employees, Government/Population`

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1WF5r


Down from 10 years ago, down quite a bit from 20 years ago

Raw totals instead of population-adjusted? Come on

> many jobs... millions upon millions

...no. It doesn't even matter what the rest of the words in the question are. Just no, lol.

> They need to be paid out somehow.

No they don't. Lots of pensions, especially the not-gilded ones, go bankrupt.

In fact, that's precisely what happens to pensions of companies that are acquired by PE. The company gets stripped for parts, it goes bankrupt, and PBGC covers a fraction of the affected pensioners' payouts.

In other words, with or without PE, bloated pensions ultimately end up being the taxpayer's burden.


> bloated pensions

I find this characterization offensive. Who is to judge if the defined benefit pension if a primary school teacher or fireman, for example, is bloated? It's part of the negotiated pay package, nothing more or less.


At least here in NYC, a large part of a NYPD officer's pension is calculated based on a 3-year look back from their retirement date, so there is a huge incentive to work as much overtime as possible in order to bump that number in your last few years of service. There are lots of stories of NYPD handing out easy overtime in massive numbers for each other, particularly when they are about to retire.

Teachers are the easy ones to point to, it is hard to be mad at an underpaid teacher who receives a reasonable pension for life. We certainly can be mad at NYPD scamming the system to get $100-200k/year for life.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-...

[2] https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/newly-retired-nypd...


At least in my union defined benefit pension it specifically excludes overtime since that obviously is ripe for abuse. It's just your basic calculation: average of your best 5 years of salary at 2% per year of service.

Is that not the case for police unions in the states?


FTA: "Although paying for excess hours can cost less than hiring new cops, overtime contributes to future pension costs.

“If your last few years before you retire, you work 300, 400 hours of overtime and bump up your pay by $40,000, that all goes into the salary that your pension is based on,” said Ana Champeny, director of city studies at New York’s Citizens Budget Commission."

So yeah, it seems like a bad idea to be able to scam the pension system like that.


Normally includes overtime and only the best few years. Can juice it to get a pension around your 40 hour salary for life.

> We certainly can be mad at NYPD scamming the system to get $100-200k/year for life.

A Phoenix police sergeant who was recently in the news for other reasons was listed as having a total salary in 2025 of $430,000.


Why are we mad at someone who has worked their whole life and is getting a decent retirement, when the article is talking about PE management fees being extracted from essential services at enormous rates?

And yes, pensions are a major part of the PE funding, but not all of it. There are a bunch of incredibly rich people who are also profiting from all of this at exorbitant rates. Can we be mad at them instead?


Public pensions and PE used to pay retirements are exactly the same thing : they are extracted from value added by workers.

All seem trivial compared to the money sucked up by billionaires, who seem to do little good for society. I'm not going to get angry at a police officer trying to maximize their retirement when we live in a society that celebrates people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg.

Two things can be bad, you don’t have to pick.

Those billionaires are not hoarding cash like a dragon in a lair, their wealth is mostly in stock in productive (FB is debatable at this point) companies many people use.

Boomers (only people I know receiving pensions) use pensions to fund lavish lifestyles without having build major companies.


Yeah. How dare they… give you one-day delivery of anything you might want like magic for the first time in human history and help use fewer fossil fuels to prolong your planet’s life while also providing ubiquitous connectivity anywhere on the planet’s surface. The selfish scoundrels.

My mom's a teacher. She would get a pension if the state could actually fund its pension program, which it can't now, and certainly won't when she retires in a few years. The government ones tend to actually have, yknow, morals and stuff.

Nothing personal here. It's possible for some pensions to suck and not others. It's also possible for a pension to suck and its beneficiaries to not suck.


Are you confused?

Why are you replying to a comment where you believe the words “doesn’t even matter”?


Looks like about 18 percent, although I would assume there's a particular demographic where this might be higher.

Do they have to be paid out in full, though? I remember cases in the past where a company went bankrupt and had to renege on some parts of pensions, so maybe you'll see that again?


After some percentage are reneged… there would still be a strongly motivated bloc of considerable size?

I don’t see how it is relevant, unless the rate is close to 100%.


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